Because I live in Kyle I often wonder where the name originated.
The mixture of Welsh, Scots, Irish, etc makes it almost impossible to make a definate statement.
Kyle could mean forest or woodland, and that wood make sense : )
The King's Forest and the Stewart's Forest, (even Kylmarnock could mean the Forest of the local Saint).

Having just looked again at the map of Kyle on Bobby Guthrie's site http://members.tripod.com/bob_newcumnoc ... e1274.html and added the Rivers: Ayr, Lugar, Glaisnock to Cumnock Loch in King's Kyle, it shows the king's strait (kyle).
There is an ancient Tax Stone on the very south eastern edge of the valley route.

Some fantastic photography by Bobby of the three lochs at New Cumnock let's us imagine what the valley at New Cumnock may have looked like a millennium or so ago, when it was one one vast loch. http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... 0067522493
During the Wars of Independence and before, Cumnock Castle sat in the loch, or did it? I have been told recently that it was drained eons before the castle was built and was probably a bogland. Be interesting to find out the facts.

On Armstrong's 18th century map of Ayrshire it states that the Black Loch flowed both north and south, therefore when the waters were much higher a great deal of water would have flowed to the river Ayr via the Glaisnock and Lugar waters, passing Lochnorris Estate (Dumfries House Estate) nr Auchinleck, Ayrshire.
Looks to me as though the New Cumnock loch was drained, with the Nith avenue to the south being enlarged.

Donald McIvar, local historian, said once that the loch was held back by a natural barrier. Was this barrier which had been allowing Nith water to flow gently from the loch enlarged naturally or by the local laird to create farmland or enable mining of coal. Could it even have been by Edward II when his VAST army came to Cumnock Castle in August 1307?
Facts? - Fiction?

My usual reference for names ("Scottish Place Names" by George Mackay) has the origin of Kyle in Ayrshire as either originating from the name of the Brythonic King Coel; or from the Water of Coyle, whose origin in turn is likely to be the Gaelic for narrow: Caol.

This second explanation would give Kyle in Ayrshire the same linguistic origin as Kyle of Lochalsh, Kyleakin, Kylesku and Kylerhea, which all derive from being beside "narrows".

Isn't that supposed to by Kilmarnock? The prefix Kil means a church or monastic retreat.

I have a habit of questioning everything, especially when so many "experts" statements have been overruled through the years eg Malcolm Wallace definately being William's father, even though the Lubeck Letter seal states William was son of Allan Wallace.

"The prefix Kil means a church or monastic retreat."
Correct, but the prefix Kyl has various meanings.
Try wordsearching Kylmarnock

[Shortly before 1535 George Colquhoun was in possession, and in this year "is rentalit Robert Boyde, the son and apperand ayre of Robert Boyde in Kylmarnock, ......"] gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/smihou/smihou009.htm

["To Kylmarnock and Kilwynnyne And till Ardrossane eftre syne.' Even long after this time it still remained a mere village, depending on the neighbouring ..."]
http://www.scottish-places.info/towns/t ... ry467.html

http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/r ... -ala.shtml
[dam Thomae Boyd de Kylmarnock, militis, de mandate ... Thomae Boyd, militis, Domini de Kylmarnock, haeredi- bus suis et assignatis, pro suo servitio mihi ...]
http://www.ebooksread.com/.../page-9-tr ... -ala.shtml

http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/w ... -hci.shtml
[Thomas Boyd de Kylmarnoch. Walterus vero apud caflrum de BaiTe in cuftodia ...]
http://www.ebooksread.com/.../page-2-th ... -hci.shtml

Kyle
[The name Kyle is a baby boy name. The name Kyle comes from the Irish origin. In Irish The meaning of the name Kyle is: A place-name referring to the narrows; a wood or a church.]

[Kyle - KYL could come either from the Gaelic coill meaning "woods", or a Scottish place name meaning "narrow." This name is more common in Scotland, where is is also a place name and a surname, than in Ireland. ] http://www.namenerds.com/irish/modern.html

Old King Coill?
Coill Regis?

http://www.aussiethings.com.au/babynames/kgirl.htm
This Australian site gives the usual suspects but also adds Kyle as: Aboriginal; name of a river.
Hebrew; crown.

You are right to question things Aulyin, but, as with many things, it could be that the most commonly stated explanations (especially those from "experts" statements) are in fact the right ones... and in the examples where Kilmarnock has been spelt Kylmarnock it could be that the prefixes Kil and Kyl have the same meaning: a church or monastic retreat!

I'm not saying the experts are wrong Bruce. I'm saying they could be wrong.
Many of the oldest names give a discription of the area:
Carrick: The word Carrick comes from the Gaelic word Carraig, meaning rock or rocky place.

Two suggestions for Cunningham:
"Cunning" is "milk pail" from the Gaelic word "cuineag" with the Saxon "Ham", meaning "village".
Teutonic people two and a half thousand years ago spelled the name as "Konigheim"; "Koening" (King) with "Heim" (Home); the "Kings Home."

Kyle (or Coila, poetically) perhaps named after Coel Hen, a king of the Britons, but I wonder if it came from the Irish - forest, separated in the 11th century into Kings Kyle and Stewart Kyle?

You're right, names of places in many cases are derived from a description of the area... but just as likely (with places prefixed with Kil!) is an association of someone to that area! As you have pointed out, there are times when a place name could be derived from more than one definition; Kilmarnock is one and there could be other Kil place names that may also have the same origins (from kyle instead of cille)!

As more than 90% of Scotland was covered in woodland at the time of naming Kyle, I see a real possibility in it being named by the Scots as "Forest" and Carrick as "Rocky".
To name Kyle after a King, perhaps, but I doubt it.
As "Narrow" or "Strait", I can imagine the river valley being called that but not the lands around it.

An interesting thread.

All i would say is that remember we have had english kings and angliscised scots burning or destroying all the old histories and records , robbing us of our birthrights and trying to erase our identity.

The general theme for scottish place names would be pictish/brythonic to gaidhlig , then gaidhlig to scots/english , possibly with the exception of the far south east.

Remember also that many of the first ordnance survey maps were done by british soldiers , thus a lot of the old spellings of places were completely lost as the names were recorded in their angliscised forms.

With reference to kyle in ayrshire , the oldest recording we have is from the 12th century when it was set down as "cul" , "cil" or in old irish "cuil".
From the old welsh genealogies , we know that the lord of the area , coel , had his seat there and thus is supposed to be named after him.

The southern area is recorded in its oldest form as karric , (1153) which comes from the old welsh carreg ( a rock) borrowed into gaidhlig as carraig.

The northern division , cunningham , is recorded as cunegan again , in the 12th century. The origin is doubtfull , but again i would say it is less likely to be anglo saxon in origin.
There were no saxons in scotland and for brief periods between the 7th and 8th centuries , the northunbrian angles held dominion over parts of south ayrshire and galloway , but their is a lot of doubt if any settlement took place.
THere has been no anglian settlements discovered in scotland from this time except in whithorn , which was an anglian bishopric for 70 years up till 800ad , when the picts and scots drove the angles out.

Cill Mhearnaig ( kilmarnock) was a church built to commemorate mo ernoc , mentioned by adamnan , who died in 635 ad.

Despite what we are led to believe , the majority of non celtic names in scotland are from the vikings , not the anglosaxons.


See professor william watsons " the celtic place names of scotland" book.